Apprenticeships

Record date: 04/2023
Air date: 5/3/23

When a lot of people in the U.S. hear the word apprentice, they tend to think about trade skills like electrical or automotive work. But apprenticeships are growing in financial services or insurance, fields where finding new applicants can be challenging. While apprenticeships are new in the U.S., they are a common job path in other parts of the world, especially in Europe, where Zurich's parent company is based. An apprentice program provides on-the-job training and related schoolwork that puts students on a path to earn a degree. Apprentices at Zurich get started in a career actually making a decent living without student loan debt.

Episode transcript:

STEPHANI GORDON: Hi, and thanks for tuning into the Zurich North America Future of Risk podcast. I'm one of the hosts for the program, Stephani Gordon. When a lot of people in America hear the word “apprentice,” we automatically think about things like trade skills — maybe electrical or automotive work. But apprenticeships are also really growing in fields where finding new applicants can be challenging, like financial services or insurance, for instance. This is pretty new in the U.S., but it's actually pretty common as a job path in other parts of the world, especially overseas in Europe, which is where Zurich's parent company is based in Switzerland. So, an apprentice program basically provides on-the-job training with related schoolwork and it puts students on a path to earn either a degree or a certification and then get started in a career actually making a decent living, but without all that student loan debt. I'm joined today by three colleagues who came to Zurich through its Apprenticeship Program in insurance. Mike Myszka graduated from his apprentice training and joined the company a few years ago. Marselo Contreras and Evelyn Molina are currently in the program and are — fingers crossed —graduating this summer. So welcome to the program.

EVELYN MOLINA: Hello, glad to be here.

MIKE MYSZKA: Hey, Stephani. Thanks for having us.

MARSELO CONTRERAS: Hi, thanks. Happy to be here.

GORDON: So, Mike, let's start with you telling us a little bit about your background in the apprentice program for anyone who isn't familiar with this “old but new again” path for entering or re-entering the workforce. Also, remind me when you joined Zurich as an apprentice?

MYSZKA: Yeah, so I joined Zurich as an apprentice back in 2017. I had been working in retail and trying to attend school simultaneously and just … it was a lot to manage. So, when I heard from a friend that Zurich had this awesome program where they were paying for your school and giving you all the opportunities to succeed, with study hours during the day and all that, [it] made a lot of sense.

GORDON: So, our program started in 2015, actually just a couple years prior to you joining, when President Obama invited about a hundred businesses into Washington to talk about how to create more paths for great jobs in the U.S. Zurich committed to launch an apprentice program, again, because our parent company in Switzerland has been doing something like this for a long time. Mike, can you talk a little bit about how the program’s defined — what the basics of it are? You alluded to Zurich paying for you to go to school and accommodating work hours. Can you talk a little bit about that?

MYSZKA: Yeah, absolutely. Well, basically a Zurich apprenticeship, it's a two-year commitment and it's a combination of on-the-job learning at Zurich and then college coursework through specific schools. Like I mentioned, Zurich will cover the tuition cost for apprentices to complete either their Associate or Bachelor’s degree while we also participate in our full-time job with salary and benefits at Zurich. And then, when you successfully graduate from the program, that also means a guaranteed job at Zurich afterwards.

GORDON: That sounds like a pretty “win-win” all around, right? The best of all possible worlds, I think. I think this is one of the coolest programs. Evelyn, so you are part of an expansion of the program that recently started in New York, correct? This is the first cohort in the New York office?

MOLINA: So, the first one was actually during COVID. I am [part of] the second one based out of New York.

GORDON: Can you talk to us a little bit about what kind of degrees you can earn? Is it anything you want or are there specific programs? I know you just mentioned that you are in the Cyber program, right?

MOLINA: Yes. So, the Cyber one specifically is the job that I work in at Zurich, but the actual degree that you get in college when you attend Borough of Manhattan Community College in New York City; it's a specific degree that Zurich offers. So, I'm currently in Business Management in Insurance. Mainly it's focused on risk management. So that's the focus [of the] career and also the classes are selected for me, as well as schedules. So, everything is very specific to the things that I work in [at] Zurich. So, a Business Management degree an associate degree in Science.

GORDON: Right, so we offer associate degrees as well as now bachelor's degrees for those who have a couple years of school already behind them. You mentioned you're in New York and I was going ask if everybody goes to the same school, but I think not, right? So, you're attending in New York, is it in person or online?

MOLINA: So, in New York, depending on the specific classes that you have, they will either follow in person or online. Now the insurance classes are fairly new and a lot of professors for the insurance classes are not based out of New York. So, those usually are always online. But other basic classes that you will need for that specific degree — like Business Management and other Business 101 classes or even English classes when you just start — will be in person because the professors will be based out of Borough of Manhattan Community College.

GORDON: Right. So, Marselo, does everybody go to the same school or is it online? Is it a blend?

CONTRERAS: No, the apprentices that [are] here in Schaumburg get to go to Harper College [which] is where I'm going right now.

GORDON: Okay.

CONTRERAS: Most of the schooling is online. It's [due] to the pandemic. We are usually doing school from home, but slowly now it's been opening up. So, we've been going into in-person classes that are [at] designated community colleges.

GORDON: Okay. Yes, everything's been kind of moving and opening up at a different pace and then in Northwest Iowa Community College is where the Agriculture Business Program is.

MOLINA: Yes, that's correct.

GORDON: Can you talk a little bit about what a typical week looks like, Marselo, for an apprentice's schedule?

CONTRERAS: Yeah. So, if you're in the Associate's program, you do two days a week in classes, and then three days a week in your job training. For the Bachelor program, they do 32 hours of on-the-job training, and they have eight hours a week of academics.

GORDON: Okay. Very balanced. Sounds very doable for the most part. So, Mike and Marselo, you guys are in Claims. Mike, you graduated, you're working full-time and Marselo's still in rotation. Can you talk a little bit about how the rotation works, Mike, because I think that's unique to Zurich.

MYSZKA: Yeah, absolutely. Well, we have apprenticeship roles in several different cities where we have U.S. offices. Some apprentices will focus on insurance roles like Underwriting or Claims or Cybersecurity or Crop Insurance. But then there's other folks who want to go into a broader corporate role like HR or IT or just general Communications. So, during [those] two years, you spend six months at a time in up to four different areas of the company. So, you get a pretty broad picture of what the organization is like as a whole. It’s actually a really great way to build a professional network because you meet so many people from so many various different areas but you still also belong to the same cohort of apprentices. So, you have this consistent base of apprentices to kind of connect with and stay in touch with through your apprentice journey.

GORDON: So you mentioned the four different areas of the company. Mike, do you guys choose what those areas are that you rotate to, or is that kind of predetermined based on the academics that you've chosen?

MYSZKA: Well, I'll walk that back a little bit. It's not necessarily four [different areas]. Some folks will stay in the same role for that full two years. Other folks will have up to four. So, it almost more depends which office you're located out of, right? And which part of the company you report up through. So, for instance, some folks might be a med[ical] only Work[ers] Comp Adjuster for all two years, whereas someone else in Underwriting might transfer through four different lines of business and underwriting to get a wider flavor of what that's like.

GORDON: Very good. One of the things I think is so interesting about this is you really have an opportunity while you're still in school to be learning about a company and the role as opposed to, you know, somebody graduating from college [who] is going into a job they've probably never worked in and kind of going into a blind, right?

MYSZKA: Oh, absolutely. Yes, and I thought it was a great experience for me personally because it gave me a lot of insight and a pretty good overall idea of what area of the company I might want to work in before I even graduated, and the experience then to apply that upon graduation. So, it's a luxury that a lot of college seniors don't necessarily have because they don't necessarily have that inside experience to know whether a company is a good fit, or even if there's a specific part of that organization they may be interested in.

GORDON: So, Mike, how did you get into the program? You gave us a little bit of background. You were working in retail, trying to go to school. How did you find out about this program? Did you plan to go into insurance? (laughs)

MYSZKA: (laughs) Yeah. No, not at all. (laughs) “Insurance company” was not at all in my mind of what I maybe wanted to do after graduating. But, like I had said, a close friend of mine was in the program actually at that time and was just raving about the experience and the novelty of getting to work at the corporate headquarters. Again, just all the benefits that came with the “learn while you earn” model of apprenticeship and that really fit what I was looking for at that time.

GORDON: So, definitely word of mouth. We hear a lot that “nobody goes into insurance on purpose,” but that's pretty funny (laughs). But once you get into insurance, then people all are like “I love this. I love this.” Right? So, Marselo, how did you hear about the apprentice program? And again, I'm going to ask, are you like looking for a career in insurance?

CONTRERAS: Yeah…no. Like Mike, I wasn't really. I didn't really know anything about the insurance world. So, a quick background. I got out of the Marine Corps in 2018 and I was I guess fortunate enough to do a program that's similar like this. It was a four-month program for welding and machining for active-duty members that are getting out of the service. Luckily, once I got home, I had like a bunch of interviews lined up and it wasn't hard for me to get a job in that field. But unfortunately, I didn't know anything too much about hire agencies or temp agencies. I got hired through one of those and [it] kind of just left on a sour note and I didn't really like it anymore. So, I jumped to my “Plan B,” which was my brother's roofing company. And that's where I got interested in insurance because he was pretty much just telling me how insurance claims work … like if hail or something like that would like damage the roof, they would try to have the insurance rep pay for it. So that kind of interests me in the whole of dealing with the insurance adjusters and sending the paperwork and stuff. It interested me. Then a couple years later, one of my cousins started the program and he actually talked to me and one of my other cousins and said how they [Zurich] pretty much just treat the employees and how the work life is at Zurich. It's obviously in the corporate setting and it's — I guess where me and my other cousin were working — that we kind of wanted something like that [with] a little bit more structure in a way, or a way to go up the corporate ladder. I still remember my interview, one of the interview people asked me, “Why do you want to work at Zurich?” I saw it as, well, I'm back home from the Marine Corps and I kind of just want to start setting down my roots here. You know, get a long-term job and just start looking for a house here and just establish my roots. That's how I actually kind of heard of the program. I went off on a tangent, but I heard of it through family members. Then that one family member got me and another family member working at Zurich. So, there's three of us there.

GORDON: (laughs) There's three of you (laughs) Well, that's a pretty good endorsement if you make that to not one but two family members. I think I've also heard about two brothers and a sister who have also gone through the program. So, it really speaks to the power of that word of mouth, of telling other people about it and how it works. So, thank you for sharing that. So, Evelyn, you're from New York. That's a pretty big place. How in the world did the Apprenticeship Program find you? Especially since it's relatively new in New York? How'd you hear about it?

MOLINA: Yes. So, I was a freshly graduated high school student and I was deciding on what college I would go to — whether two or four years. And I settled for Borough of Manhattan Community College. I really wanted to continue my business education because I had a major in Business during high school. So, once I chose Borough of Manhattan Community College, I knew that I wanted to study Business Management. I didn't know exactly what I would get out of it … what job I would be heading towards after two years. But as soon as I applied and I was accepted, ready to go. My advisor within the school called me up notifying me that the Zurich Apprenticeship Program had just been newly offered in New York City. And basically, [he] just summed up all the benefits that the Apprenticeship Program offered. The main focus was very focused on going to work, getting paid, and also having your studies paid for. So, I knew that it was definitely one of the options that I wanted to look into.

GORDON: So, it sounds like this program really appealed to the best of all possible worlds in terms of covering the tuition and the education, the career path, etc., right?

MOLINA: Yes. I would.

GORDON: Tick all the boxes (laughs).

MOLINA: Yep, yep. It was very important for me to study in a field that I knew would have an end goal. I knew I would be in a field where I would have a job in the end. I know a lot of students and a lot of people that went to New York City colleges and didn't come out with a sustainable job or settled for a job that had nowhere [anything] near their degree. So, that was very important to me … very, very important to me, that I had like something stable in the end and something that I already studied for two years while also working for them. So, it was like a “win-win” situation where I already knew what I was going to get into and I also have studied it.

GORDON: That's something that most high school seniors don't have an opportunity to do. But I'm guessing that when you graduated, insurance wasn't probably top of your list of career aspirations, right? (laughs)

MOLINA: No, no, it wasn't. I was a 17-year-old, not even knowing and not even paying anything for insurance. I knew that it was a must. I knew that it was never going to go away. I knew that everyone had to pay for it but I had no idea what it was — how it helped people, honestly — but as soon as I saw that opportunity, I was very open to learn about it.

GORDON: So, now that you've been in the field for a little while, what do you think about it? Are you proud to be in it? Do you like it?

MOLINA: Absolutely. I think I've learned way more, obviously, in this job than I would ever learn, like even getting insurance for a car or getting insurance for a home because there's so [many] fields in it [insurance]. I've worked from [Workers’] Compensation and that's where it's like coverage between workers for big companies. I've worked in International Property where it's like big, big companies [coverage] overseas for their properties all over the world. Now, I'm working in Cyber and I had no idea that people get cyber insurance. So, I had no idea that there was so much and there's many, many more. (laughs)

GORDON: Right. It is a pretty fascinating industry when you start to break it apart. It sounds fantastic that you've gotten so much exposure to different areas of the company, and it's probably really built your network as well, right?

MOLINA: Yes, yes. Every team I had, it's always like, they have to communicate. They have to let each other know what is the work, what needs to be done? There's always com cell meetings, which usually happen every week and you also commonly speak to your manager. I also have a coach within the program. I have a lot of “triple As,” which are apprentice alumni that have previously graduated. So, there's a lot of help. You talk to a lot of people, even going in office, you meet a lot of people around the area that you sit [in]. When you have lunch … when you go in, get breakfast and have a cup of coffee … there's opportunity to network all around, honestly.

GORDON: I was going to ask you about this. So, Evelyn, what's it like to go right out of high school into a professional office environment? A lot of people make that transition either through college or they might go to trade school or something like that, but you've made a big leap to go right into a professional environment. Was that intimidating, or what's some of the other kind of support that you made reference to — besides [what] you've mentioned [about] having a coach and being able to rely on some of the apprentice alumni who've graduated.

MOLINA: It was all the emotions in one. I think it was mainly very intimidating. As soon as I heard [I needed] to dress “business casual,” I knew I had no idea what that meant (laughs). I didn't know if it was a suit or tie, if it was jeans? But I feel like the people that you surround yourself with definitely make it more comfortable. My first-ever team — I was in Domestic Large Casualty and I've met amazing people there that just said it straight — said that the standard wasn't to be so professional, the standard wasn't to be so cut clean, but it's to just talk to everyone, to look at your surroundings. It was definitely not what I expected, where I wouldn't be myself or I couldn't say certain things around other people. It was like a conversation. It was a community. That's how I treated a lot of my team members, that it was just myself in a field of insurance and everyone knew I was very young. So, they were all welcoming to teach me how to write an email or (laughs) how to send messages on Teams, how different Outlook applications work. I've had coaches that also helped me just work Excel before I even had class in Excel and those opportunities really helped me understand that the idea that I had about the corporate world wasn't so cut clean. Where it's like, you can't say certain stuff or you have to dress a certain way. It was just everyone was themselves. We were here to work. We were here to network, we're here to learn more stuff and I love it. Now, after two years, I understand that it's all welcoming. Everyone understands that we're from different parts, and it's amazing to hear everyone's story on how they got started. (laughs).

GORDON: I'm glad to hear that. So, it sounds like what you ended up feeling, it's a professional environment, but maybe not as stuffy as you anticipated or feared that it would be. And it turns out that it's just actually a really cool environment where people are trying to do the right thing, like you said, “get the work done, get along, appreciate the diversity of what everybody brings to the conversation,” right?

MOLINA: Yes.

GORDON: Mike, you've been around a little bit longer. You might know the answer to this. What kind of support is provided for apprentices? Is there a mentoring program or, as you were going through things because you came out of retail. Marselo came out of the military and more hands-on construction, etc. So, you get into a professional office environment for the first time. What's that like?

MYSZKA: Like being a fish out of water. It's a little bit of a shell shock, right? It’s certainly a new experience, but much to the credit of the Office of Apprenticeship, there is an entire support structure for our apprentices and on a few fronts, too. We have on-the-job coaches and mentors who help apprentices with their day-to-day job skills and other corporate responsibilities, so to speak. Then we have Academic Advisors from the schools that our apprentices attend. So, there's that more specialized education focus, whether that's tutoring or study strategies, things of that nature. Then, you know, a lot of what we focus on is things like coaching on interpersonal skills, including time management, dependability, communications, and really just geared around helping folks that maybe are new to a corporate or office environment find their footing.

GORDON: And that's good to hear. I would imagine that you do need a lot of support. And it's funny, the “fish out of water” thing. What's the career path once you graduate? So, Mike, you've been out how long now? You've graduated four years ago?

MYSZKA: Yep. Graduated about four years ago and I can't speak for other companies that may have apprenticeships or if this is more a unique to Zurich, but there's a ton of opportunities. Obviously, you can stay in whichever role you're hired into once you graduate, if that's a good fit for you. But then there's other folks, like individuals in my cohort and the ones who I followed, that have gotten promotions or gone into something like the Claims trainee program to become a Claims Adjuster. Other folks have moved into consulting roles or HR roles. So really, the sky's the limit. It’s anything that Zurich has to offer is available to our apprentices.

GORDON: And all these people who never thought that their future fate was in insurance, now they love it and they want to stay, right?

MYSZKA: Oh, yes. There's quite a lot of us and it seems to be growing exponentially too.

GORDON: I've heard that as well. Do you have a path in mind for your career or any advice for Marselo and his cohort when they graduate in a couple months?

MYSZKA: Oh, goodness. It sounds a little silly. I'm still not sure what I want to do when I grow up (laughs). I'm kind of finding it along the way. But, at a company like Zurich, there's so many interesting things going on in a lot of ways. So, I've almost learned — and my advice, I guess, to other apprentices would be to keep an open mind. You know, there's a lot of people here … Underwriter or Claims Adjuster … I think a lot of the times those are the draws because folks just tend to know what that is. But Zurich has so many unique roles that maybe don't receive the same amount of attention. But you know, if you're keeping an open mind, you might find a role that's a great fit for what speaks to your own personal motivations. So, part of it is keeping an open mind. Another part of that is also figuring out what motivates you, right? What do you enjoy about the work you do? What do you dislike? Where do you want to develop? So, be in tune with yourself. Also, put that out there to other folks too, whether that's your manager or a mentor. Have those conversations about, “You know, I really like this. What other roles are out there that might fit this skillset or this passion of mine?” So, it's kind of a long-winded answer. Again, the sky is the limit for apprentices graduating [from] the program at Zurich.

GORDON: I think that's great advice. Thank you for sharing that. So, Marselo, in terms of who can apply to the Apprentice[ship] Program, maybe some people think it's just for someone who is getting out of high school as an alternative to college. But what I'm hearing for both of you is you were already in the job market. You'd already had a life after school, etc. So, who can apply to the program?

CONTRERAS: So, yeah. One of the cool things about this program is how diverse it is, because you've got people from all different ages and backgrounds who join for a lot of different reasons. Like Mike. He was in retail before; I was in construction. But there are some people in my cohort — one of my classmates, she used to be a nurse and others are straight from high school. So, it's really nice.

GORDON: It's very diverse.

CONTRERAS: It's a of people who have different backgrounds that could apply and could get into the program.

GORDON: I know it's had a lot of visibility. I think, Mike, you just mentioned the program's kind of picking up speed. I think it is expanding exponentially each year and it's had a lot of visibility lately. There was a Wall Street Journal article, I think there was an appearance on “Fox and Friends” with one of our current apprentices. Jillian Walsh, she's the Head of Apprenticeship, was interviewed for The National Desk. Can you talk a little bit about that?

CONTRERAS: Yes, the Director of Apprenticeship, Jillian Walsh was interviewed, along with my, fellow apprentice, EJ Crespo. He's from my cohort.

GORDON: That's pretty cool. So, I think this program, Mike, was the first one that was certified by the U.S. Department of Labor for insurance, right?

MYSZKA: Yeah, it sure was. Of all of these companies that have apprenticeships, we were the first one. Subsequently, too, we've received a Presidential Award in 2020 for a Pledge to America's Workers. And the Department of Labor shows us as an Apprenticeship Ambassador in 2022.

GORDON: And last year, Dr. Jill Biden came to Chicago to kick off National Apprentice Week, and I think Zurich, Aon, Accenture … all have an apprentice network as well that was acknowledged during that [event]. So, just a couple more questions then for either one of you. How do you fit it all in when you talk about work and school and family? How do you do that?

MYSZKA: Well, like with any career, you know, you have your ups and downs. You do your best to kind of manage your time, right? Certainly, one of the things that helps is having that study hour, having some time during your days at class to focus on that homework, on that coursework. But at the same time too, you know, it is school. Sometimes you come home and you have some homework to do and for some of us with children, maybe that means you have to put the kiddos down for bed and then hop back on to finish an essay or study for that final that you have on Thursday. We hope that a lot of the resources that are provided to our apprentices around time management kind of click in these high-priority situations where you do really need to focus on what's important and how do we manage it all.

GORDON: Right. You really have to apply what you're learning. What about you Marselo, in terms of time management? Also, how many classes do you take each semester?

CONTRERAS: It varies. So, some semesters you take three classes. The other semester [you] should take four. I'm in a semester right now — in the spring semester — I'm taking four classes compared to last semester [when] I was taking three. So between three and four classes. But I believe pretty much just what Mike just said. I believe that Zurich does give you the tools, and pretty much it's the time to work on school. So, like the Tuesday and Thursday for me is phenomenal because I have two classes on both Tuesday and Thursday and a break between them and, obviously, the whole day to work on schoolwork or study for finals. What Mike just said, too, [about] the study hour that Zurich provides while you're at work for Monday, Wednesday [and] Friday. They give you pretty much an hour to study or do some homework or kind of just get your schoolwork done. So, you have that aspect of the Apprenticeship Program locked down.

GORDON: Excellent. Very good. So, last question: Are you guys glad that you've done the program? What has it meant to you or what's the best thing you've gotten out of it?

MYSZKA: Oh, goodness. It's hard to pick just one thing. I mean, certainly a lasting career is a great perk to apprenticeship, right? But beyond that, [I’m just] really grateful for a lot of the people I've had an opportunity to meet through the apprenticeship and, kind of tangentially, the folks that support apprenticeship [who] are advocates and all that. So, it's just been a tremendous opportunity. I think folks see that the word “apprenticeship” sometimes and it kind of raises an eyebrow. There's some extra interest there, right, even just as a conversation starter. [I’m] very grateful to have been a participant in such a unique program.

GORDON: Very cool.

CONTRERAS: Yes, I would say I'm beyond glad of actually doing the program. Like Mike said, it's a career. Like with other jobs, I couldn't see myself where I could see growth within a company, you know? Because most of some companies are just, “All right, you're just this,” and there's no movement up. So, definitely when I started working at Zurich, I saw that I could work here for a long time and get somewhere in a career.

MOLINA: The best thing that I've gotten out of this program is the experience in awe. I feel that every time I join another team — because I've done multiple rotations — everyone is so impressed on how young I am; but just hearing their stories, hearing how they got started, hearing that a lot of people have been here for more than 20, 30 years … I always go to them for a lot of questions that I have, even in my day-to-day basic personal life. So, you definitely build a lot of networking skills as well that I take outside of my job. In all, I really do appreciate everyone that I've worked with, even the information that I've learned. One of the fun things that I've also got to experience working at Zurich is a famous cosmetic line that I've always shopped at has also been insured with Zurich, and I've worked personally in insuring them within my fields. So that was amazing to see.

GORDON: That's a pretty cool connection, especially when you have that personal connection with a brand like that. And then to realize there's a whole other slide of their company that you never realized, behind the scenes with insurance, right?

MOLINA: Yeah, and it was a big field. It was International Property, so [I] got to see that they were insured all around the world.

GORDON: That's fantastic. I love it.

MOLINA: So, it's cool to see different data applications as well. And after two years, I think I am amazing at Excel (laughs). I wish I could just keep learning about it … which I can. So now it's just, see how far I can go with it, you know? See where I go after [this] and just enjoy the experience. See where I land after I graduate.

GORDON: That's so great to hear. I love to hear that. Thank you guys so much for taking the time to talk about this. I love this topic and it's been such a pleasure getting to know both of you and hearing about your experiences. Thank you. Thank you guys so much for being with me here today. Mike, Marselo, Evelyn … I've thoroughly enjoyed the conversation. So, thank you so much for being my guests today.

MOLINA: Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for allowing me to share my story and my experience.

CONTRERAS: Yes. Thank you for having us.

GORDON: And to our listeners, thanks for joining us. We'll look forward to bringing you another edition of Zurich's Future of Risk podcast soon.